The Art of Exceptional Childcare: Insights from Manny & Me owner James McCrossen

Danny Rosenthal: James, thanks so much for joining us. How are you doing today? 

James McCrossen: I’m very well. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I’m very excited. 

Danny Rosenthal: Yeah, I mean, Building an agency is hard. So like, how did you even come into doing this line of work? Even being in this industry, you’re like a small, small percentage where you’re male.

James McCrossen: Yeah. I mean, it was, I kind of fell into it by accident. Really. I started working with children a long time ago when I was about 14, 15 coaching sports, I’ve always worked with children just because my parents worked with children, my dad was a teacher, my mom was a social worker, but I, when I finished university.

I got a job in a school and actually what was funny about the interview is that, um, the person, the headmistress, she said to me that, you know, you work in the school, but you’ll probably get more work outside of school. I was like, what do you mean? She said, well, lots of the families here will want you to come on holiday with them to tutor their children, to coach sport.

I can assure you you’re gonna be inundated with requests. So I was like, okay, that sounds great. I’m up for doing that. And then the summer came. As she predicted, I was getting lots of requests from families and so I was going away on holidays and, you know, I’d never really thought about the role of a nanny.

I didn’t have one growing up and didn’t know anybody who had one. But suddenly I was, fell into this role. I’d done some babysitting so I guess that’s quite similar. But yeah, I started working for some families and then after some time spent working as a teacher, I, um, I was speaking to some other families and then one of the families kind of said to me, Do you know anywhere else where we can find people like you?

And so I was like, well, I’ve got lots of friends who are also teachers and I’m sure they’ll be up for doing it. And then it was like, actually, maybe I could make a business from this, because I do know a lot of people who are looking for this kind of work, and I know a lot of males especially. especially teachers.

And I thought perhaps I could turn this into a business and be the person in the middle that makes these kind of connections. And so that’s kind of how it came about. So it wasn’t really something planned. It kind of came organically. 

Danny Rosenthal: Your Manny and me is the name of your agency. Is it harder or did it come easier because it was such a different style?

These are Manny’s. How different is that? 

James McCrossen: I think It’s definitely something, when we first started, so I actually started with a, with a, with a friend of mine who was also a teacher. Um, and when we first started, it was, you know, it was definitely something that wasn’t out there that much. I mean, I knew I was kind of the only male nanny at the school gates at the school that I was picking the kids up from.

So I knew there wasn’t many out there. Outside of London, I didn’t know. And I actually did a bit of research and, you know, I found some people in America who were doing a similar kind of thing. And so at the start, I guess, It’s a new product in a way, it’s a new thing to show to people, but there was a reason why there wasn’t that many.

male nannies is because it’s heavily dominated by females and most families wanted a female nanny because of that kind of maternal instinct and that sort of caring side of things that females and mothers naturally have. So it was something that was quite difficult to kind of get going because it was about changing people’s mentalities, trying to change those gender stereotypes.

And you know, it was a slow burner to start with. But slowly but surely, we started to get more and more families contacting us. Then we started to get families, especially with majority boys, or single parent families, like, just the mummies around. And so we started to see that there was a bit of a niche market out there for it.

Yeah, it started to grow. 

Danny Rosenthal: When people ask you, like, why should I go with a male nanny? What are kind of the benefits that you talk about? 

James McCrossen: Yeah, I guess I guess for the main thing, I think it’s always just good to have a balance. And I think that that’s, you know, when I worked in schools, there was often just mainly female teachers.

So when a male came in, it was just like, you know, a different perspective of looking at things, just a different balance. That’s a male role model there as well, especially for young boys. somebody to look up to, someone to think, Oh, I like someone to aspire to. And um, I think one of the big things that we’ve, we’re trying to kind of break down was this idea that females and mothers are the only ones who can be relied upon to give child care.

So it puts so much pressure on the mothers and females to do everything. And one of the things about having male role models there is And what’s great for kids is for them to actually look and see, Oh, this is a male as the caregiver. And he’s doing all the things that my mum does, or the females in my family do, or that look after me.

And so it’s like, Oh, actually, this isn’t just for mums. This is for mums and dads, or for males and females. And I think I, when I, when I do speak to families, I don’t really say you need a man. It’s more a case of, I’m going to give you. options here. I’m going to look for who’s the best person for the job and it could be male or female.

I might give you an option of both, but yeah, these are the people I think are the best fit. But I definitely think, especially mums on their own, it is good to have that balance there of, of the male and the female, especially for the children, female children and male children as well. So, you know, the stereotype is to say, well, they’ll be really sporty and they’ll be able to go and play with the kids in the park, but then males and females can do that.

So it’s quite hard to kind of pin down what. What one sex can do better than the other. It’s more a case of just trying to have balance and to try and have role models of both male and female. 

Danny Rosenthal: Yeah. I had a mother explain it to me once of saying that she really liked having a male around because she liked that her kids could grow up seeing a man doing the laundry and washing the dishes and taking care of their emotional needs.

Exactly. 

James McCrossen: That’s exactly what you just said. There is exactly what, um, yeah, what, what’s great about having male nannies is. And you know, it does take the onus off. And it just shows children, especially, you know, there’s still those old stereotypes out there. There’s still very traditional families, families do things the way they want to do them, and that’s their own choice.

But it is good for young children to see that a male can do the washing, do the dishes, do the cooking, you know, all of these kinds of gender stereotype roles that we have around the house, which is. You know, it’s a bit old school, but there’s still people who do that. So it’s good to, to sort of, to demonstrate that to kids.

Danny Rosenthal: With being Manny and me, is it hard overcoming that stereotype as a business in the caregiving world to just get people to call and get on the phone and fill out the application from the client perspective, but also the male perspective. How are you sourcing? these, you know, male caregivers that are like, it’s very few.

James McCrossen: Yeah, well that, that is an issue, um, and has always been an issue is that there just isn’t a big pool of candidates to choose from. So a lot of it’s about educating, um, those people out there that are kind of, you know, there’s lots of people who work with children that are male, but they might work in various other capacities like sports clubs or they work in schools or whatever it might be.

And it’s just about letting them know that we’re out there and there is another. line of work, working with children that you probably didn’t think about. And so one of the kind of key methods I do for that is referrals and word of mouth and getting my current manis to spread the word. So, you know, what a good little, um, idea is to kind of say, look, if you can bring somebody else to our agency and I find them a job, I’ll give you a reward.

And so that worked really well, you know, there were some guys out there that were well connected and, you know, that worked for sports clubs or they were actors or various other. lines of work and they were able to sort of reach out and say, you know, I’m working for this agency and every summer they give me jobs to go away with the families to here, there and everywhere.

And the other person they’re working with hears that and go, I want a piece of that. And so it kind of spread like that. And we got more and more and more manis. In terms of the actual market, getting those roles and things like that, it’s, it was quite difficult to get to change people’s ideas, ways of thinking, and sort of say, you know, A male nanny is also an option.

Many people kind of resisted and were like, Hmm, I’m not sure. Do they have extra police checks and things like this? And I said, No, they’ll get exactly the same police checks as female nannies. And you know, there’s some people who are a bit hesitant about that kind of thing, and it was key for us to be understanding of what people’s reservations were, but also try to educate and try to show them that there’s some great options out there.

And, you know, as soon as the reviews start to come in, as soon as you start to get other people talking about it, then, you know, business grows. 

Danny Rosenthal: What do you think is like the hardest challenge just with your agency in general? 

James McCrossen: The issue that we’ve actually found recently, uh, something we’re trying to address is the fact that whilst we would love there to be more than 3%, the fact of the matter is, is there’s never going to be that higher percentage compared to females.

There’s always going to be more females than there are males. doing this kind of work. And I think that to try and get it to 50 50 would just be a pipe dream and it would, you know, it’s very unrealistic. So what I’ve found is that actually as a business trying to grow, it’s been quite difficult because although we do have, and although the name suggests Manny and me, That was kind of for us to find a place in the market and to try and establish ourselves.

But we do have female nannies as well. As I say, we do, when we speak to families, we do provide options of male and female. As a business, you want to grow, you want to get bigger, you want to be more well established, even outside of the city that we are currently in, London, to move into overseas. If we just solely, and if we’re just known for working with male nannies, we just can’t grow just because there’s never going to be that.

much interest. So one of the key issues we’ve had is trying to work out, with the name Manny and Me, are we limiting ourselves a little bit? Do we need to market things in a better way, so that people understand that there are nannies, that we do have nannies on our book? And I think I’m still grappling with that and still trying to work out what the best option is.

Is it a case of changing the name? Um, you know, there’s lots of things I’ve been thinking about and it’s quite a difficult one because I know that the nanny industry, the actual female nanny industry, is quite big and there’s always going to be lots of families looking for female nannies. But is there going to be enough families looking for male nannies?

I don’t know. So that’s probably the toughest thing that we’re sort of challenged with at the moment. 

Danny Rosenthal: What you’re saying just kind of has my mind going in a whole bunch of directions but one of the things that I am thinking about is when we think of roles like Butler, which actually truly exists, is there room for like those types of other roles or is that just something that like is not interesting to you at all?

James McCrossen: Well, this is, you know, it’s funny that you should say it right now because one of them, one of my clients actually reached out who I know very well and asked if I had any cleaners or if I knew any caretakers or house managers. And so I was. Kind of thinking, hmm, I don’t, I know a couple just through my work, but I don’t know that much I don’t know that many people.

I don’t know that much about the role exactly, but I, you know, I do have a good idea So it’s one of those things like how Interested are you in interviewing those other roles? That’s not really your passion But at the same time, it could make your business just grow a little bit more in, say, other directions.

So, my passion’s always been kind of education and working with children in that kind of space. So, although we are a nanny agency, which is not like a school or anything like that, I know that there’s lots of elements of helping children with homework. And there’s always thinking about children’s development and all those kinds of things.

So the nanny world is definitely still kind of linked in with what I have a passion for. And I obviously wasn’t a manny for many years as well. 

Danny Rosenthal: How do you know someone’s actually good when you’re interviewing them? 

James McCrossen: In terms of nannies? Yeah. You know, I’ve just had, um, I’ve just had a new employee start this week and so I’ve been kind of running through things with her about what I look out for.

First of all in in the CV phase, in the resume phase, and trying to think about what are the key things I’m trying to pick out from the CVs. For me it’s somebody well rounded so. I don’t necessarily look for somebody who’s worked as a nanny their whole life. I actually quite like finding people a bit like myself, because I know the experience I had, of working in a few different settings, a few different capacities.

So, you know, I’d worked as a sports coach, I’d worked as a teacher and a teaching assistant, I’d worked with special needs children, I’d also worked with mainstream schools as well. And so, It’s about, but I had also traveled. I’d also could play different sports and, you know, it’s about trying to find someone who’s quite well rounded so that when they go to work for the family.

They’re getting good value for their money. They’re getting somebody who can work with the children on this, work with the children on that. But also, when they speak to the children, they come from a position of having learned quite a lot through their life already. So you could be young, you could be 22, but, you know, when I started I’d already done a bit of travelling, I’d worked as a football coach, a tennis coach, I’d worked with special needs children, I’d worked as a teaching assistant.

All of these things I’d already done. That’s kind of what we look out for, and enjoying the interview. So I want to kind of get a feel for that, you know, when they go to work with the children, they’re going to be imparting lots of nice information with them and having great conversations and exploring different interests.

That kind of thing is key for me. 

Danny Rosenthal: When you’re setting up the match between the caregiver and the client. Is there any advice that you’re giving either or of them about how to do a great interview? 

James McCrossen: I used to kind of give information about when you met them in person and all of these things and, and I, uh, I still try to promote families and try to push that they meet face to face rather than online.

But you know, the world we live in now, everything’s, a lot of things are online. It is a quite different interview for people. When we’re matching them up, one of the things that we look for is those kinds of extra things, not about just childcare experience. What are you interested in, outside of your working life, but also when you work as well.

So when someone kind of a candidate will say, well I do this in my spare time, I do this, I try to get to know their personality, and then that just gives me a better chance of making a good match. But also, I find out a lot about the families, about their children, about what they like to do, like what they are good at, what they enjoy doing at school, and all these things.

So once you’ve got a little bit of a match, then you can, that’s a good conversation starter and it’s good for questions and things like that. And yeah, I guess my tips for families is to make sure you give the chance for the candidate to speak and kind of tell you about themselves, ask about them and try to find out a bit about their personality as well.

Personality match is quite key for this kind of industry. And then for the candidates, always have lots of questions. Show a real interest in what you’re doing. Show that you have a passion for working with children. Ask questions about the children. What does a weekend look like with your family? What do you like to do as a family?

What do you What do the kids do? Do they have extra clubs? Do they play sports? Do they get music? Really get a good overview of what the family is like and what family life is like for them. The personality map and getting on with each other and having common interests is. Everybody I put forward’s got good childcare experience.

So that’s not really in question. It’s going to be a lot of the time about a good personality match. And you know, all families are different. All families do things in different ways. They have their quirks, they have their beliefs, they have their family set up. They might live here. They might live there.

The houses are all very different. So it’s such a strange industry in that sense. It’s quite a tricky industry to try and make those matches. If you think of other recruitment industries. It’s not like that at all. When you think of childcare recruitment, there are so many boxes that need to be ticked in order for it to be a good match.

You’ve got to give that extra time and attention to trying to make that happen. Yeah. It’s a difficult industry. And I think if I speak to lots of agencies, they find it tricky, but you know, you’ve got to do as best you can to try and find that perfect match. 

Danny Rosenthal: When you were like starting out, it was like, I’m making this agency.

What was kind of like one of those first hurdles that you’re like, Oh, this is hard to overcome. 

James McCrossen: I think the first thing is, you know, having done the job, I knew the job inside out. So I didn’t have to worry about understanding too much about that. The thing about running a business is just all the admin.

And it’s just like, Oh, we’ve got to do that as well. We forgot to do that. We’ve got to do that. Okay. Then it’s like, oh, what about that? We haven’t done that either. And it’s all these like, you know, lots of legal things, lots of paperwork, lots of learning how to run a business in terms of financially, making sure that everything adds up and that you’re, you’re trying to make money, profits, and.

I think it’s all the kind of day to day admin things in the office and trying to make the business a success on paper is definitely the hardest part about it. Because actually talking to families, talking to candidates, knowing the role, all of that, that just comes naturally just because I had that experience.

It’s all those extra things that you, that are new to you. And I think that when you first start a business, it can be a bit overwhelming because there’s so many different things you’ve got to think about. And it’s, I think that’s definitely the trickiest part, but once you get into your groove and once you know.

all the boxes that have got to be ticked, then it’s, it becomes much easier and it kind of just runs by itself. 

Danny Rosenthal: Something that I think about often is when a client is having a bad experience for whatever reason, how have you like dealt with those situations? 

James McCrossen: Yeah, I mean, it’s tricky because you know, You send the person in to do the job, and, you know, everybody’s, you’ve done your due diligence, you’ve, um, they’ve interviewed, there’s been trials involved sometimes, and everything is, looks great on paper, but things change in people’s lives, things happen, you know, for whatever reason, and these difficult situations do arise.

I’ve not had many of them to deal with, but I’ve had a few, and I think the main thing is, you’ve got to listen to both sides of the story, you’ve got to be very kind of, you’ve got to appreciate what, where both people are coming from. So whether it’s the family or the candidate and um, take it seriously on both sides.

One person might come to you and sort of say this has happened, this has happened, this happened, but straight away, although I’ll listen and I’ll appreciate what they’re saying. I’m not necessarily going to believe everything that’s happening because there’s always two sides of the story. So before I do anything, I want to hear from both parties if there’s been an issue with the candidate.

And, you know, it can be very sensitive. Things can happen that are, you know, can be quite serious sometimes. So You’ve got to be, you know, you’ve got to have empathy, and people usually can get emotional about certain things, and it’s very difficult, you know, and each situation’s very different, so you’ve got to really, sometimes they come at you, and you’re kind of, your day’s going very nice, your week’s going well, and And everything’s running smooth and then suddenly you just see this call come up on your phone and it’s someone’s name and you’re like, Hmm, that can only be because something’s happened because everything’s been running smoothly.

Why would they be calling me six months into a placement? And so then, you know, they’re often not ringing you to say everything’s going really well. Thank you. I hope you’re well. It’s usually because there’s an issue. You know, it’s tricky. It’s um, you’ve just got to uh, take it in your stride and try not to get too put off by these things.

They happen. You’ll move on. It’ll get solved. Whether that means finding a replacement for them, whether that means some making some adjustments in what’s happened or you know, the role or speaking to the candidate. It will get resolved. You will move on. Um, you’ve just got to be You know, try to remain calm and get to the bottom of it and try and find a solution.

You know, you’re often trying to fight fires here. Try and find solutions so that everybody’s happy. 

Danny Rosenthal: Yeah, I think that that’s remarkable and great advice. You’re going to get through it and it’s going to move on and it’s going to get solved. You pointed out that like people’s lives change and I think that that’s probably actually got to be one of those biggest things that it’s not just like this person’s been doing a bad job for six months.

It’s probably like This person’s thinking about moving. What do I do? Or, you know, those sorts of things where, like, somebody’s life has just changed and they don’t know how to handle it now. And, you know, you have to step in because you have the experience to navigate this in their eyes. 

James McCrossen: What I always say to candidates, you know, as a, as a company we have, like, a client guarantee period where, you know, we will, if anything goes wrong, or if the candidate leaves or whatever, we’ll find replacements for them.

But, you know, that period does end and we don’t have any sort of, we don’t need to do anything else from then onwards necessarily on paper. But we’re always there as a place to call, you know, I’ve got a lot of experience. So I say to the candidates, look, if it’s 18 months down the line and you’ve got an issue or whatever it might be, give me a call, we’ll discuss it.

I’m sure I probably would have come across it at some point in my professional career. We can discuss it, see if we can find a solution. It doesn’t all have to end in catastrophe. There are ways of getting through things with a few little adjustments, even just having a chat on the phone. And it’s the same with the families, you know.

I say to them, don’t do anything drastic. Call me up, let’s have a chat. I’m sure we can find a solution to this. So, um, yeah, we’re always there for both sides. I mean, over in the UK, nannying is always seen as quite, um, as quite as. a traditional, uh, industry, you know, Mary Poppins, and we’ve got these very, uh, we’ve got these amazing traditions over here.

So it, there is a high standards, and there’s the, the royal family will have, um, will have nannies, and it’s kind of always in the news and things like that. So, You know, we, we, we try to do our best to try and keep up with all of the other agencies out there that are well established and have been around for years.

Um, but we, you know, Manny and me, we’ve been trying to change things a little bit, change those gender stereotypes and try to promote males in childcare. So it’s been a bit of, it’s been a good journey and I’ve been running the agency for about eight years now. You know, it’s, I feel like we’ve, there’s definitely more male nannies out there and hopefully we’re kind of changing people’s perspectives on, on males working with, with children, especially the younger ones as well.

Danny Rosenthal: You just gotta get one of those placements in with, like, the royal family. That probably changes everything. 

James McCrossen: Well, it was, it was funny because, um, it came out that, like, uh, quite different to the royal family, but, uh, when Kim Kardashian had a male nanny, I suddenly was getting phone calls from all the newspapers in the UK, and they were all calling me up going, um, because, because our name, Manny and Me, if you type in Manny in childcare, we just come at the top.

And, uh, yeah, we were getting calls saying, have you heard Kim Kardashian’s having a, has got a male nanny now, she’s just announced it. Kanye West wasn’t very impressed at first, but I think he’s coming round to the idea. And so, do you have any comments about that? Can you tell us a bit more about male nannies?

And so Yeah, I mean, I had lots of, uh, funny interviews and once it’s in the spotlight like that, it really helps us and our profile and yeah, if the royal family want to get a male nanny, I’ll, um, I’ll be happy to help them. 

Danny Rosenthal: James, it’s been such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for doing this.

Where can people learn more about Manny and Me and yourself? Well, 

James McCrossen: I mean, obviously, um, our website, which is, um, www. mannyandme. com. So you can find out some information there. But we’ve also got our Instagram channel. You know, we’ve always tried to make a point of educating, uh, nannies on there and, and putting lots of tips and, and things to do around London specifically.

So you can find out more information there. And yeah, if you, if anybody wants to have a chat about moving into the male nanny industry, you know, if you’re a male nanny and you’re thinking, or you just work with children and you want to become a male nanny, always feel free just to drop me in an email.

I’m happy to jump on a call and kind of give you some information and some tips about moving into this industry if you’re keen. 

Danny Rosenthal: Thank you so much, James. I really appreciate you joining us. 

James McCrossen: Thank you for having me. It’s been, it’s been great.